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Doctor Who Mafia - Day 8 - Page 63 - WestGamer
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:30 pm 
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After his big mislynch he wasn't overly influential.
People do know for the most part that they can't just auto-trust others :wink:

And yeah, town won
If that were true, we would have seen evidence of it in this game - we saw the opposite.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:38 pm 
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The thing is mal has the track record of delivering when it's needed. He hit obi at just the right time to gain enough town favour back and give his words some weight. And at the time town didn't have many better options for a lynch.

On that mafia were pin point with their hits and limited investigative results significantly early. I don't think town got one positive mafia hit from investigstions that was successfully broadcast to the town.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Different moderators would handle the situation differently - there's no set structure for everyone to run their games exactly the same. Further, the fact that you both held different win conditions complicates it.

From what I gather, Centurions simply decided that win conditions (and the thematic aspects of the game/situation) took priority over the "Mafia play nicely together" thing. His game, his call, and it's an understandable one from an outsiders perspective.

If it were my game, I'd've been all over that shiz and reprimanding Mal something chronic for not playing nicely with his team. I, however, am not Centurions (nor any other moderator) and so again probably would be handling it differently to others.

Different mod, different experience.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:41 pm 
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Anyway, I'm going to leave it at that.

Thanks everyone for playing :)

Thanks SL for making an awesome Cybermat :)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:43 pm 
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Continued...

Day 5 was pretty much "set up for endgame" day. This meant I needed to do 2 things.

- Kill off the biggest threat at that time that could end me, this being the 2 Darleks I knew were out there.
- Give the town a win to prove myself on their side.

And this is where it all started to come together like clockwork. The town fired up to lynch Darthproph (with the help of a little initial push from me ;) ), and I stood back until it reached critical mass (as I knew it would with the town vs mafia numbers so close and neither of the 2 Cybermen contributing to the vote) before launching my strike. I then went into overdrive to wrench the lynch into a new direction, implementing the 4 players who had voted Darthproph in the process. :twisted: The lynch got back on track against its new target - Obeisance (who I was pretty certain about being Darlek at this point), and the day ended with his destruction - directly due to my intervention. Awesome result. I should also note here that just after the lynch was nailed (but before the day ended) I took care to point out Bokke66 as the next target for the following day. This was a calculated move as I didn't in fact think that Bokke was tha last Darlek, so I was hoping that because of this finger pointing the true last Darlek would not attack me at night.

I didn't even bother trying to get the Cybermen to attack the new Doctor on this night (Polar) as I was pretty certain he'd be immune after what happened last time a new doctor appeared. Instead we had to puzzle out who the remaining Darlek player was. An educated guess told us that it wasn't Wyldcarde (after he was previously found innocent from Doctor investigation), so it came down to Bokke66 or Marked by the Gods. Ultimately Marked's play over the course of the game seemed to align with Obeisance's the most, so we went in for the kill. Luckily we got it right and the last Darlek was toast.

Feeling pretty good about where I'd be standing at the commencement of what I hoped to be the final game day, I got a message just prior to morning to inform me that my bomb had exploded. Russia had escaped! <insert masses of profanities here> :P

It was time to see if "plan B" could stand up to the rigours of scrutiny I was about to have to deal with...

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:53 pm 
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Cheers anyways guys gg to all and catch ya in the next one.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:02 am 
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Day 6, in a nutshell - was insane.

With Russia out and Polar due to announce an investigation - I knew I needed to strike fast. Thankfully I had already prepared for this and had a "running list" of who I had been bus driving ;) for the entire game designed to cover up Russia's initial capture and every other point where I could have been implicated in nefarious activity. The last entry it needed was one to keep Bokke66 on the suspect list and me in the clear. After our parting words to each other prior to night falling the day before I knew that it was extremely likely that Polar would have investigated either me or Bokke at night. Solution? - I claim that I swapped Bokke with me. Therefore if Polar had investigated me, of course the guilty result was Bokke's. If he investigated Bokke, then the innocent result (I of course knew that he was innocent by now as the only remaining mafia was the cybermen) was mine. Win-win. Furthermore, by revealing the swap prior to Polar revealing his investigation it looked even more truthful (on the surface only). I got it up just in time.

Unfortunately for me - Russia was on the ball and pretty much suspected what I'd been up to (good play dude ;) ). I knew I'd be unlikely to convince him otherwise, so I focused largely on getting the town on side. Polar was always going to be a dicey one (getting him on board pretty much tipped the day in our favour I think), but I knew that Darthproph was pretty likely to side with me after I saved his bacon the previous day. Wyldcarde, well - let's just say that Dave knows me a bit too well. ;)

When the day ended with Bokke's lynching and we were choosing the nightly kill target - the Cybermen and I pretty much had it won. I was confident that the Doc's protection had run out, and we had both my 1x ninja (that the Cybermen still knew nothing about) AND the mafia night kill to finish him off. And then we made the most critically STUPID mistake of the game. Given that we weren't sure exactly what Russia's character could do - we sent in Sensual as the Ninja instead of sending in the strongman. I mean, the doctor couldn't possibly resist 2 ninjas the night after he'd finished regenerating, right? ....Right??

WRONG! :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:05 am 
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I'm going to try and keep this short.

- Malignant cannot be blamed for threatening to expose the mafia if he didn't get his way. This is Centurions fault for allowing a player to know who the mafia are whilst retaining a different win-con. This is a big no-no, and that's not even really my opinion that's just game balance.

- While I appreciate the thematic nature of Malignant's role I really feel it was poorly balanced. Having him as a survivor who needed the doctor dead is great. Giving him a deathproof is great. Giving him the option to join a mafia... okay, that wouldn't have been a problem if he'd swapped his win-con. Telling him who the mafia factions were beforehand but not allowing him to talk about it? That's asking a player to selectively ignore information, which is a big no-no.

- The lack of activity on the last day was really lame, and I felt really disappointed that I was kept out of the game for 5 days and when I finally returned with solid information nobody listened.

- While I personally would have accepted Darth's vote, I totally understand and respect Centurions sticking to the deadline.

- Its seems from Centurions own words that he essentially made up my "capture" on the spot. I'm not too happy about this. Weak doctors can target survivors no problem and I don't know why I was punished that harshly for theme.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:18 am 
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So amazingly - Centurions had gifted Russia with the power of the UBERdoc. A doc ability that (unlike normal) was able to prevent BOTH kills from occuring rather than just 1. And he'd targetted Polar that night for protection.

The kill bounced. We were screwed.

But even in the face of such adversity - I had absolutely no intention of giving up. ;)

Day 7 pretty much writes itself. After revealing my true identity (which I pretty much had no choice about - Bokke flipping Town completely invalidated my bus driver claim), my only hope was to present someone besides myself as a better lynch option (lower risk vs my possible remaining saves = high risk), or to somehow prevent a lynch alltogether. I was really busy at work that day too, so was very happy to play the "delaying tactics" card, which pretty much contributed to the final result.

If I had have been taken out in the final day, I beleive there was a good chance that the Cybermen still could have won it. All it would have taken would be a single mislynch, and with Darthproph looking reasonably guilty by association from when I saved him - I think that this was a genuine possibility.

But instead it came down to a REDICULOUSLY close call, leading to the most epic finish ever. Win or no win - I was very pleased by the entertainment factor and I hope everyone else was too.

Thanks for the game all! I had a blast. Definitely had to work my hide off for this one, and I have no doubt that I'll just be lynched on sight by both sides for the forseeable future as a result. ;) Congrats to the Cybermen for their part of the win as well. Big props to Centurions for capturing the Dr Who theme beautifully.

Now Matt - get your act in gear and let us know what's happening with the next game! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:21 am 
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- While I appreciate the thematic nature of Malignant's role I really feel it was poorly balanced. Having him as a survivor who needed the doctor dead is great. Giving him a deathproof is great. Giving him the option to join a mafia... okay, that wouldn't have been a problem if he'd swapped his win-con. Telling him who the mafia factions were beforehand but not allowing him to talk about it? That's asking a player to selectively ignore information, which is a big no-no.
I agree that aspects of it were a bit clunky, but I certainly don't think it was unbalanced in terms of power. I still had pretty much the toughest win condition in the game - and getting there was a nightmarishly difficult task!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:29 am 
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Quote:
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- While I appreciate the thematic nature of Malignant's role I really feel it was poorly balanced. Having him as a survivor who needed the doctor dead is great. Giving him a deathproof is great. Giving him the option to join a mafia... okay, that wouldn't have been a problem if he'd swapped his win-con. Telling him who the mafia factions were beforehand but not allowing him to talk about it? That's asking a player to selectively ignore information, which is a big no-no.
I agree that aspects of it were a bit clunky, but I certainly don't think it was unbalanced in terms of power. I still had pretty much the toughest win condition in the game - and getting there was a nightmarishly difficult task!
Yeah, "poorly designed" is more appropriate than "poorly balanced".

But Centurions, it was your first time as mod and you did a stand up job. I'm sure there were plenty of lessons for you and I really appreciate your efforts.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:31 am 
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So amazingly - Centurions had gifted Russia with the power of the UBERdoc. A doc ability that (unlike normal) was able to prevent BOTH kills from occuring rather than just 1. And he'd targetted Polar that night for protection.
Ahhhh, was Polar targeted by 2 killers in the same night? Yeah, I should have only stopped one... :?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:36 am 
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Quote:
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So amazingly - Centurions had gifted Russia with the power of the UBERdoc. A doc ability that (unlike normal) was able to prevent BOTH kills from occuring rather than just 1. And he'd targetted Polar that night for protection.
Ahhhh, was Polar targeted by 2 killers in the same night? Yeah, I should have only stopped one... :?
Yeah, Cent explained to me later that it was intentional. ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:35 am 
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Yeah, learnt an awful lot over the course of the game and have plenty of notes in regards to what I did wrong. Both Mal & BL are correct in there earlier posts. I basically wanted the whole infighting to cease so Mal was told that he couldn't provide the names and BL was told as to what benefit having him join the group gave them. Something I didn't do from the start. I should have also allowed the mafia faction to target him for a night kill in typical dalek, cyberman fashion. I definintely made errors at the beginning and hopefully will learnt from them.

In regards to "capturing" Russia, True, The Master wasn't mafia, however again, as per mafiawiki "This doctor dies if he protects an anti-town player." Well to me, The master in this game, even though I made him a survivor wasn't on the townside therefore fitting the bill of anti-town, hence why he was captured and not killed. Ok, again probably wrong but it was how I took it.

regarding the UBERdoc that
Quote:
Ahhhh, was Polar targeted by 2 killers in the same night? Yeah, I should have only stopped one...

I used this from Mafiawiki "Some moderators cause Doctors' protection to stop all kills that would resolve on the target that Night." To me it balanced out the fact he was a weak doctor that died if you targeted mafia (and in this case captured if you targetted Master)

Hopefully this clears some stuff up.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:01 am 
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I beleive there was a good chance that the Cybermen still could have won it. All it would have taken would be a single mislynch, and with Darthproph looking reasonably guilty by association from when I saved him - I think that this was a genuine possibility.
this is why i'd asked to be investigated, if russia protected polar then polar could confirm my townness that night
if polar looked at lettuce or bloodlust he would have had a target to lynch and i would have been fine a bit longer
and this could have got town a win
i would have also be pointing out that bloodlust had said he would lynch mal if bokke turned up town, part of my waiting to lynch was to see if bloodlust voted as he'd said - but i also wanted to see if mal named names (forcing the other mafia player to take him out at night i thought) but i shouldnt have waited past 5 mins to deadline.

the next day i would have quoted mal saying that he didnt think bloodlust was town and used it to discus with wyld the 'if mal always lies...'

Id been sure bloodlust was mafia as soon as i read his initial day 2 posts, but couldnt seem to lead a lynch, and i didnt want to (and still dont) reveal the other reason i was sure of this but i'll be testing the theory in future games - lets just say i think bloodlust has a 'tell'

in hindsight i should have taken back my vote of msl on day 1 as i accepted his getting 2 messages having had the same but i didnt want to be seen voting/unvoting in case it looked suss but if i had taken it back i may have had a bit more luck leading a lynch day 2 and if we'd revealed a cyberman day two...


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