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Mafia HQ - Game List & Stats - Page 38 - WestGamer
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Nah he's gone pro! He's thrown a believable quote in for why he will be less active in the game when he 'begrudgingly' agrees to join in.
Watch this man, potential Godfather 8)
lol...

Naturally I'm in... hook line and pokeball

And I thought 9am was in the afternoon? ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:28 pm 
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Wait 9 am is too early for some people?
Truth be told, I really did struggle getting up this morning before 9am. :lol:
I feel bad for you. You missed the best part of the day.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:06 am 
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In case anyone is interested, I thought it might be a fun experiment to join a game on the main http://www.mafiascum.net/ site and see how they play it there, what approaches they use, and how different it is. I've been in a game that started over a month ago, but is about to end. When it does I'll post some notes.

(It's down to the last 3 players, and all I have to do to get a win is convince a Townie that I can prove I am also a Townie by the fact I killed a Townie on night 2 and a Townie on night 4. Piece of cake 8) )


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:25 pm 
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Mission Accomplished! Squeezed away with a very close win :D

Some notes from Mafiascum.net
The games take a lot longer - this was over a month, despite only 13 players. Time zones probably have something to do with it.

The players are much more hard-core. For example, where we play gradual role calls and chat for the first day, the common play is an RVS - people's first post is a vote against a 'randomly' chosen player. This is seen as a common way to get the first scum-tells, so simply not voting in your first post is considered to be a scum-tell.

While most are random, the RVS are actually useful, because counter-intuitively Mafia are more likely to vote for one another than townies are; Mafia tend to think in binary to vote "Mafia or Town", while Townies only have a one in four chance of picking a Mafia player randomly. I didn't do an RVS because I didn't even know what one was yet, so had to play the "noob card" pretty hard.

The biggest 'Scumtell' is anyone who does not actively hunt mafia. That was quite different. Here on WG some players like to toddle along and have fun and see what happens, but believe it or not I got a few votes against me for not being active enough in hunting mafia! Seriously, I kid you not.

The next biggest 'Scumtell' is considered to be following other people's lead on Lynches without offering your own reasoning and investigations and theories.

The game had an innovative idea - a Lounge for Dead Players! As people from either team were killed, they were sent here where they could chat and comment and speculate about the game: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/VQDxDqFT7Xekr
That could be a fun addition, if Mods want to allow it.


On the whole, it was probably closer to 'pure' mafia than most games here (especially due to the lack of RCs), and I think I learned quite a lot from the experience. At the same time, the games are a lot less sociable, a lot more business-like, and less fun.

Westgamer would definitely be my venue of choice for future games.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:59 pm 
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Most of those points are my experience playing on other forums, especially the scum tells about not hunting actively enough and following leads without offering your own reasoning. The RVS thing I'd never heard of though. I've been in a games where the usual play is to lynch someone completely randomly Day 1, but it's never been an organized 'RVS' thing.

It was very interesting introducing mafia to Westgamer, and having to tow the line between trying to impose a little order on the chaos and avoiding coming across as bossy.

As it stands Westgamer has developed it's own little meta, with a few little quirks that it would be good to iron out, like the number of players who stay quiet and then criticize the vocal minority for being too loud.

Westgamer mafia has also evolved to be a lot more power heavy than I'm used to, almost like people are afraid to use classic vanilla ratios for fear of being seen as boring.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:14 pm 
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The Dead Player Lounge is an idea I really like, I'll definitely use it next time I mod a game. It throws the players in with the guys from the other team who just killed them, and lets them all chat and speculate while the game is still running. I noticed the Scum didn't say who were on their team even to the dead townies, so I am not sure if that's a rule or just tradition so that the guessing can keep going.
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The RVS thing I'd never heard of though. I've been in a games where the usual play is to lynch someone completely randomly Day 1, but it's never been an organized 'RVS' thing.
It wasn't exactly "organised" or mentioned, they almost all just did it. One player gave a reason with his random vote ('This is a good wagon') which was controversial and later he turned out to be scum, which was interesting.
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Westgamer mafia has also evolved to be a lot more power heavy than I'm used to, almost like people are afraid to use classic vanilla ratios for fear of being seen as boring.
Definitely true. IMHO Role Madness games are the easiest to solve; ie it is a huge boost to Town if there are lots of powers, even if Town powers are weak and mafia have nothing but strong ones. It gives a whole new angle for investigation.
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As it stands Westgamer has developed it's own little meta, with a few little quirks that it would be good to iron out, like the number of players who stay quiet and then criticize the vocal minority for being too loud.
I know what you mean, but it's simply that certain players are much better than average at getting targets lynched, regardless of what team they are on.

I don't mind that, but really people should be accusing the people who are "lead like sheep" rather than people for "leading sheep". Every individual is responsible for hunting down and finding Mafia (or for pretending to lol), so if it annoys anyone that people are going along with someone's lynches, start your own :D


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:26 am 
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Hows the queue for games these days ?

Ive been watching a few new simpsons eps and am keen to run another mafia game.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Hows the queue for games these days ?

Ive been watching a few new simpsons eps and am keen to run another mafia game.
I have a Batman Inc. game lined up after the Heresy game not sure about others

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:41 am 
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With the Epic Horus Heresy game finished I will open up my game tomorrow for sign ups

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:39 am 
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Great, thanks.

I'm putting this here rather than in the Horus thread, because while it was a good, fun and very thematic game, Cults and especially Cultafias are really hard to balance, and hard to recommend to Mods.
Here's what the Mafiascum wiki says about Cultafias, in their original bold text:
Quote:
If the Cultafia does not die immediately in a game, it is almost guaranteed to win. Do not use this.
Applying that to a recent example,

[] 1x Cult: Recruiter x4
[] 3x Mafia: Godfather & Backup Recruiter,Roleblocker, Strongman
[] 1x Serial Killer: Survivor
[] 15x Townies: Various

If we had a mislynch on Day 1 and 2
Mafia would have killed 2 (13 town)
Swirly would have recruited 2 (11 town)
Russia should have killed 2 (9 town)
Town would have mislynched 2 (7 town)

[] Mafia = 3 members
[] Cult = 3 members
[] SK = 1 member
[] Town = 7 members

On Day 3, to wipe out the Mafia and Cult would require 6 good lynches in a row. Every bad lynch (including lynching the Serial Killer as a 'bad lynch') from this point on would potentially lose Town the game

If we had 3rd Mislynch:
[] Mafia would have killed 3
[] Swirly would have recruited 3
[] Russia should have killed 3
[] Town would have mislynched 3

Mafia = 3
Cult = 4
SK = 1
Town = 3
Potentially giving 7 anti town, 1 SK and 3 lonely Townies by the end of Night 3.

We were lucky in this game to get the Cult Recruiter on Day 1 (after going to the wire with votes against a Townie) and then correctly lynch twice more in a row before getting the backup recruiter on day 4. That might make the game look like it was more even than it really should have been - it could have ended with a Cultafia win a lot sooner than it did.


The Real problem with Cultafias is:
The game is fundamentally flawed when the town can lynch scum every day and still lose.


Town successfully Lynch a Mafia member Day 1, Lynch a Cult Recruit day 2, Lynch a Cult Recruit day 3, Lynch a Cult Recruit day 4. All good lynches.
Mafia would have killed 4
Swirly would have recruited 4
Russia should have killed 4

[] Mafia = 2 members
[] Cult = 2 members (4 recruited, but 3 lost to lynches)
[] SK = 1 member
[] Town = 3 members (8 killed, 4 recruited (3 of whom were lynched))

Town lose. They've somehow managed to find correct targets, rally the troops, shout down votes from anti-town factions and get the lynches in on time and played a flawless game, but they have lost.

I hope this isn't seen in any way as a criticism of the Mod, Mike did a good job and it was a very interesting game with great characters. Cultafias suck
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthre ... 5&page=104

Mafias on the other hand, rule :D


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:58 am 
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Well that turned in to a bit of a wall of text. :D


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:12 am 
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I got some free time this morning so Batman Inc. is now ready for signups

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:06 pm 
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I hope this isn't seen in any way as a criticism of the Mod, Mike did a good job and it was a very interesting game with great characters. Cultafias suck
No worries matt, I knew full well the possibility of what I was doing but hoped that the worst case would not come to that. I would do it differently were I to do it again but overall, I am reasonably happy with how it played out. Certainly you can expect another 40k mafia from me at some point!

Balance wise I can see the issues that might arise from a cultafia... It's why it was recruit or kill at night... It seemed like the best option for balance. As it stood, the cult may as well have not existed as they only recruited once anyway!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Matt does that factor in town powers? I was trying to keep tabs in them halfway through the game but gave up, town had two cops, a backup, a watcher, a voyeur, a lie detector etc

As mafia we where like holy crap how many powers are out there.

On top of that I had to accept to join the cultafia and I didn't know exactly what I was joining. I doubted anyone else would join voluntarily unless they just wanted to cause problems :)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:27 pm 
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No worries matt, I knew full well the possibility of what I was doing but hoped that the worst case would not come to that. I would do it differently were I to do it again but overall, I am reasonably happy with how it played out. Certainly you can expect another 40k mafia from me at some point!
Glad to hear you're planning another. This game was fun and lasted to the end, but I think that's because Town started so strong. As I mentioned it could have ended much much sooner, so if other people planning games thought Cultafia are a cool alternative to Mafias they could end up with very different results.
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As it stood, the cult may as well have not existed as they only recruited once anyway!
Lazy cultists! I'd have gone with recruiting over killing every time, it's in the maths of the game!
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Matt does that factor in town powers? I was trying to keep tabs in them halfway through the game but gave up, town had two cops, a backup, a watcher, a voyeur, a lie detector etc
Yes that factors in town powers; it would probably require cops and trackers and watchers to hit Cult Converts so consistently as in the last example, which is one that shows Town doing everything right and still losing.
It's an extreme example of course, it's a lot more random when you actually play a game, but if a scenario shows Town can lose after playing a perfect game, no amount of powers would change that.


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