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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:00 am 
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I think it's a great move as will get more people playing.

If the GW rules are solid everyone can use them, if they suck everyone uses the rules the community made but with shiney new models, it really is a win win (as a lot of the alternative mini makers are mailing lists not webstores like troll sculpts on eBay so C&D is difficult)

Also apparently blood bowl is 6months out (approx) but that comes with a salt tablet


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:14 am 
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Well the Warhammer App today, has just announced that the new GW design studio is working on more box games to be released over the next few years including:

Blood Bowl;
Necromunda;
Epic; and
Battle Fleet Gothic.

To name a few the announcement States.

I'm super pumped about these games been released and happy GW has decided to make this move.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:21 pm 
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I think it's a great move as will get more people playing.

If the GW rules are solid everyone can use them, if they suck everyone uses the rules the community made but with shiney new models, it really is a win win (as a lot of the alternative mini makers are mailing lists not webstores like troll sculpts on eBay so C&D is difficult)

Also apparently blood bowl is 6months out (approx) but that comes with a salt tablet
Yes and no :)

I find it is hard for the community to settle on one set of rules, and people tend to gravitate back to the official rules in most cases. I mean how many sets of rules do we have for fantasy right now? There are new ones popping-out every month and they are all claiming they are the second coming of Jesus.

But we will see. It's definitely a good sign for SG fans.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:28 pm 
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Am I the only one that is at best indifferent to GW taking an interest in Specialist games range and at worst actually hostile to it?
Nope, not the only one.

I predict this going one of 2 ways (both really not good):
- GW releases new starter sets and a limited range of additional models that are extremely pretty but horrifically overpriced - all the while attempting to shut down as much of the market for 3rd party alternatives as they are able to (expect a lot more C&D letters being sent), or...
- GW continues to push the "we're a model company, not a games company" angle and releases a crappy simplified version of the rules for these games that smells like a wet turd to people who are longtime players. Unfortunately this has the result of fracturing the existing playing communities between "official rules" GW purists, and people who want to play the existing (and good) rules as they already are.

Based directly on recent history, confidence is not high from me.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:11 pm 
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The negative response to this baffles me. It really is proof that it's impossible to please the 40k/GW fan base.

GW has done something people want, it has announced it via a direct to community approach, two things which indicate a positive change of practice, and half the people gripe about it.

I say good on GW for trying to reengage with the long time fans.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:33 pm 
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The negative response to this baffles me. It really is proof that it's impossible to please the 40k/GW fan base.

GW has done something people want, it has announced it via a direct to community approach, two things which indicate a positive change of practice, and half the people gripe about it.

I say good on GW for trying to reengage with the long time fans.
Ahem.
People aint happy with GW. So GW gives them what they want and they complain about it? Such an odd mentality


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:44 pm 
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The negative response to this baffles me. It really is proof that it's impossible to please the 40k/GW fan base.

GW has done something people want, it has announced it via a direct to community approach, two things which indicate a positive change of practice, and half the people gripe about it.

I say good on GW for trying to reengage with the long time fans.
Your right in a lot of ways, and i also think its sad that we cant be more optimistic about GW's latest release's (or announcements)

I STRONGLY feel though, that the reason for the pessimism is GW's own doing, they have released other things in recent history that have certainly "gone against the grain" with the gaming community.

"You reep what you sow" is a saying that could be used to describe the current situation imho.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:05 pm 
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The negative response to this baffles me. It really is proof that it's impossible to please the 40k/GW fan base.

GW has done something people want, it has announced it via a direct to community approach, two things which indicate a positive change of practice, and half the people gripe about it.

I say good on GW for trying to reengage with the long time fans.
Ahem.
People aint happy with GW. So GW gives them what they want and they complain about it? Such an odd mentality
its a bit more than that. A lot more.

GW walked away from game systems because it didnt think they were profitable. Not that they werent popular. Just didnt make that much $$.

So gamers took their gaming responsibility onto their own shoulders and made a game. They realised that they did a better job of it.

Now GW come back like some deadbeat dad saying "hey we are now ready to support you guys again!" when no one needs their hype, their marketing, their interference.

What are they going to add to the epic scene? Better rules based on balance and the community...or just fracture the gamers that want to have the GW rules and those that dont.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:12 pm 
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Yeah, I'd love to be wrong, but it really is a case of realism rather than pessimism.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:44 pm 
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This griping attitude (albeit somewhat justified in some cases) is something that brings gaming down. I understand some resentment twords GW, but the online community gets out of hand on the griping front. There's so much negativity that no wonder GW disengaged in the first place. Why bother asking if you're always going to get told your ideas suck, butter just to push on and let sales figures direct decisions.

As a community we need to start to push back against allowing ourselves to actually be the characteure of the cynical biter geeks which we can be portrayed as.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:52 pm 
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This griping attitude (albeit somewhat justified in some cases) is something that brings gaming down. I understand some resentment twords GW, but the online community gets out of hand on the griping front. There's so much negativity that no wonder GW disengaged in the first place. Why bother asking if you're always going to get told your ideas suck, butter just to push on and let sales figures direct decisions.

As a community we need to start to push back against allowing ourselves to actually be the characteure of the cynical biter geeks which we can be portrayed as.
I don't see this outpour of negativity you are talking about. Some people are voicing concerns and criticism but they also give arguments as to why. are you saying we are not allowed to be critical of this news?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:01 pm 
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This griping attitude (albeit somewhat justified in some cases) is something that brings gaming down. I understand some resentment twords GW, but the online community gets out of hand on the griping front. There's so much negativity that no wonder GW disengaged in the first place. Why bother asking if you're always going to get told your ideas suck, butter just to push on and let sales figures direct decisions.

As a community we need to start to push back against allowing ourselves to actually be the characteure of the cynical biter geeks which we can be portrayed as.
We're cynical for a reason. Yeah, this is a hobby and it gets taken seriously a bit much sometimes but hear me out.

We can spend thousands of dollars on miniatures. Many of us have. We spend that money for different reasons but a big part of that is that we love playing the game as we found it, the game we learned to play and grew up playing.

GW has a long track record of taking what we love about the system or the army and changing it or discarding it. AoS is an excellent example. They've binned the entirety of their background. Altered all of their armies. Changed most of the rules. What we loved about the game might not be there anymore. And GW's response is "We don't make games anymore, we make miniatures." Pretty much, just a "Suck it up and deal with it."

So here's where the current situation gets sucky.

In the pursuit of profit, they discarded these games quite some time ago. They retained the IP because the IP has value but stopped selling miniatures and stopped selling the rules. So the community rallied because of their love for the game and the game survived. The community embraced it, made it their own without GWs interference and now take a sense of pride and ownership of it.

Whoever made the deadbeat dad analogy above has hit the nail on the head. The community behind these games is doing just fine without GW but this whole thing reeks of them just taking the necessary legal steps to protect their IP. They've proven through past action that they genuinely don't give a (censored) about these systems and the only thing they see here is dollar signs. No one in their right mind could believe they are going to treat these new rule releases with the same care that thousands and thousands of gamers have since they were abandoned. But they sure as hell are going to start suing people to protect it.

So yeah, we've earned the right to be cynical.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:06 pm 
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Whoever made the deadbeat dad analogy above has hit the nail on the head
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:21 pm 
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What I'm saying is it is no wonder they don't consult with the community when the vast majority of feedback online is negative, regardless of the quality of the product. so they end up just making it up as they go.

I agree with you on stupid changes though. Dumping specialist games to begin with, and destroying WHFB was a crazy idea.

This is actually one of the biggest challenges in stakeholder engagement (something I do for a living), people hardly ever tell you if you are doing things right but they love to tell you when you do it wrong. The funny thing though is it'd be easy for GW to do point of sale surveys and get data from their customers. It's stupid or ignorant that they don't.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:37 pm 
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What I'm saying is it is no wonder they don't consult with the community when the vast majority of feedback online is negative, regardless of the quality of the product. so they end up just making it up as they go.

I agree with you on stupid changes though. Dumping specialist games to begin with, and destroying WHFB was a crazy idea.

This is actually one of the biggest challenges in stakeholder engagement (something I do for a living), people hardly ever tell you if you are doing things right but they love to tell you when you do it wrong. The funny thing though is it'd be easy for GW to do point of sale surveys and get data from their customers. It's stupid or ignorant that they don't.
I'd say the vast majority of the feedback online is negative because they don't consult the community/do market research.

There are plenty of gaming companies that do maintain contact online, and while there is always going to be some background noise, you'll find that there is also some very good and mature feedback. Mantic, PP and FFG are three examples.

Fair enough otherwise, and interesting insight on stakeholder engagement.

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