It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:26 am

All times are UTC+08:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 243
In trawling the Tactical Command Ork development forums to try to find clarifications about the Orkstein Gargant list's munted/missing rules, I found newer versions of the list. The one listed in the Compendium is version 3.0.3. However, there was a version 3.0.4 released in 2011, and a version 3.0.5 released in 2012, which apparently never made it into the Compendium. The same can be said of the other Ork lists.

Anyone know why the 2014 Compendium would be using a version of the list from pre-2011, when newer versions (from the Army Champion at the time) have apparently been around for ages?

As a corollary, is it likely that the 2015 Compendium, which will presumably be released soon since it's supposed to happen in January, will use the newer lists?

(I'd ask on Tactical Command, but apparently you have to wait for a person to approve your registration before being able to post. Thanks!)


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:32 pm
Posts: 2437
You should always use the lists found in the rule book. I'm on my phone or I'd quote you the page and such. I learnt that the hard way myself

_________________
WWW.SANDGROPERCUP.COM
WWW.BRAWLBB.COM


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 5:56 pm
Posts: 3240
Location: On the Otherside of the Breach
Ther was an issue very similar with the Black Legion List which has now been rectified. I would go for the latest numbered revision on Taccoms and read through the relevant thread by the respective army champion or sub champion for the list.

The official approved lists along with rules that is now a beautiful live document (in addition to being able to be downlaoded is below)
http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/

The compendium is good but I have been looking on Taccoms for the individual threads for the most recent updates and activty as some of the lists in the compendium are quite experimental and/or havent been touched for a long time

_________________
Pull My Finger - The Malifaux Wiki

Wyrd Henchman


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 243
Quote:
Ther was an issue very similar with the Black Legion List which has now been rectified. I would go for the latest numbered revision on Taccoms and read through the relevant thread by the respective army champion or sub champion for the list.
Fine in theory, but problematic if you build a list according to the latest version and the TO wants you to use an older one. :P
Quote:
The official approved lists along with rules that is now a beautiful live document (in addition to being able to be downlaoded is below)
http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/
That's only the Approved lists though. Matt's tournament at TGA last year also allowed Developmental lists, hence the issue.
Quote:
The compendium is good but I have been looking on Taccoms for the individual threads for the most recent updates and activty as some of the lists in the compendium are quite experimental and/or havent been touched for a long time
Indeed - what I'm mainly concerned about are the ones that have been touched, updated, and released... but not in the Compendium. If that's common, what's the point of the Compendium at all?
Quote:
You should always use the lists found in the rule book. I'm on my phone or I'd quote you the page and such. I learnt that the hard way myself
That sounds like there's a story behind it!

Perhaps my issue is just that the Epic community is not as active as I'd like. Many of the lists have been Developmental for several years with minimal 'development' but without becoming Approved (or fixing glaring errors) - that rubs me the wrong way. I've been spoiled by other games. :P


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:36 pm
Posts: 137
Roboute Guilleman, your Spiritual Leige, laid down the Codex Astartes long before your time.

His wisdom and foresight far exceed your own - heed it and be satisfied.

(aka, yeah, the Black Templar list is pretty blah. I'm sticking with Codex Astartes - and Dobbsy, our champion, seems to be doing a great job)


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 243
Quote:
(aka, yeah, the Black Templar list is pretty blah. I'm sticking with Codex Astartes - and Dobbsy, our champion, seems to be doing a great job)
I don't want to be mean, but isn't part of him "doing a great job" ensuring that the Black Templar list (and all the other Space Marine lists) isn't blah?

Perhaps I've missed the point of what a Champion is supposed to do, but it seems like updating the lists to be viable and fun is pretty much the entire job description.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:36 pm
Posts: 137
Dobby is AC for the Codex list, which is cool and getting cooler.

He is not the AC for Black Templars.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 243
Ah, okay. I don't think the main Orks list (Ghazghkull) has changed in a very long time, and since it's considered one of the most 'balanced' lists, it's not likely to have any movement. The discussions about that quite annoyed me - they commonly feature sentiments like "Yeah, we know this option is useless and nobody ever takes it, but you can just take other stuff instead so the list is fine and doesn't need changing." It's like... come on. The only advantage of a community-based game is that if you know something isn't seeing play because it sucks, you can improve it or remove it.

The other Ork lists were all seemingly championed by one guy, who quit like two years ago but is still the only contact listed anywhere. His last two major revisions were ignored for some reason. :/


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:36 pm
Posts: 2400
I'm noting is as well.

Maybe we can get a vocal movement happening to see some of these developmental lists shifted to approved.

Why do scions of iron some random no name chapter have an approved list but first founding chapters like blood angels still languish in developmental he'll never being updated or moved into the approved area.

_________________
2013, Warhammer 40,000 Ultimate Champion
2012-13 Wargammer 40,000 General's & Standard League Champion
"I'm saying... I'm an insect who dreamt he was a man. But now the dream is over, and the insect is awake."


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 4:00 pm
Posts: 3401
one way u can help a list progress is to do battle reports for it...i believe u need to get 6 battle reports from 3 different groups and then it goes to ERC to approve it....recently the Imp Knights/ATML lists went through this process and got approved...

so if ur keen to get a list up to approved then start posting battle reports and help the process along :)

_________________
Religion - the ancient world's equivalent of fandoms!


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:36 pm
Posts: 2400
This I can do.

I think we also need to push through new rules to make being inside a destroyed transport less severe, to encourage more ground based transport armies

_________________
2013, Warhammer 40,000 Ultimate Champion
2012-13 Wargammer 40,000 General's & Standard League Champion
"I'm saying... I'm an insect who dreamt he was a man. But now the dream is over, and the insect is awake."


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 4:00 pm
Posts: 3401
Quote:
This I can do.

I think we also need to push through new rules to make being inside a destroyed transport less severe, to encourage more ground based transport armies
suggest you raise your concerns with Onyx - he is the current ERC president and knowledgeable on the rules and the reasoning behind them...

what sort of change would you suggest?

_________________
Religion - the ancient world's equivalent of fandoms!


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:59 am
Posts: 863
I'm with Aaron on this, though I'm yet to come up with a good answer.

My Ork mobs want to be in close combat but they have the choice of:
1. Dismounted: Cover save and no risk of being blown up with the Battlewagons but only15cm Engage move; or
2. Mounted: Double the Engage but risk getting shot to bits in the tank.

It's the same for other armies, of course but worst for mechanised CC armies. It's why I like my Landa air assaults (and would like masses of Scorchas if I had them).

_________________
WMH: Khador and Circle; Malifaux: Gremlins, Outcasts, Arcanists and Neverborn; X-Wing: Rebels; DWars: Prussians; Blood Bowl: Lots :) Dreadball: Humans; W40K: Space Marines; Epic: Orks and Imperial Guard; Warhammer: Empire


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:29 am
Posts: 243
I think it's a big part of why air assaults are so common - there's no good option for ground assaults, because ground transports are freaking lethal (not to mention that air assaults can be launched at pretty much any target on the board as needed). Ground transports are also pretty expensive, for the most part.

Gorgons seem to be the obvious exception to the above - it's safe enough to leave units in them (since they don't instantly explode and kill everyone like, say, an Ork Battlefortress), and they're cheap as heck. It's a bit sad going through some of the discussions on WargamerAU and TacComs, which read like "Gorgons make DKoK into a viable ground assault army, and that's awesome! But compared to other transports they're really underpriced, so we should nerf them until ground assault isn't viable any more."

Rather than making Gorgons worse, why not adjust the transports in other armies so that they could be viable too? (Battlefortress, I'm still looking at you, you steaming pile of crap.)

Just as an idea for a potential adjustment, what about giving infantry a 4+ cover save when their transport is blown up instead of a 6+? That seems more in line with 40k transport deadliness. Beyond that, adjusting the profiles and/or points costs of some key transports is probably easier than re-writing a bunch of the rules.

(Seriously, an Ork Battlewagon has the exact same armour profile as a Leman Russ in 40k. Somehow the Battlewagon translates into an AV 5+ while the Russ is AV 4+ RA.)

If mechanised assault is going to be a thing, it basically needs to compete with air assault, which already enjoys huge advantages. Ground transport options need to be significantly safer and/or cheaper to find a balance with air transports.

EDIT: Actually, simulating 40k transport deadliness would be roughly like making the mounted stands just disembark and take a dangerous terrain test. They'll probably be killed when the formation zooms off and leaves them behind anyway, but at least you get to choose that outcome.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 4:00 pm
Posts: 3401
Quote:
Just as an idea for a potential adjustment, what about giving infantry a 4+ cover save when their transport is blown up instead of a 6+? That seems more in line with 40k transport deadliness. Beyond that, adjusting the profiles and/or points costs of some key transports is probably easier than re-writing a bunch of the rules.
cover save? what cover is being provided when the thing ur riding in explodes as ur riding in it, especially if it gets hit by large caliber ordnance? perhaps give them their base armour save (if the unit has one) as the armour ur wearing would provide some level of cover. although i would say MW and TK weapons wouldnt allow a save - the weapon is so destructive nothing would be left that would constitute a unit (even if a couple of survivors crawl out of the wreckage)...

_________________
Religion - the ancient world's equivalent of fandoms!


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

All times are UTC+08:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited