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Is aoe so bad 8th will rule forever - WestGamer
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:55 pm 
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So I've talked to about 10 fantasy players myself and have read a lot of forums the past few days (just had foot surgery and stuck at home) and the consensus seems to be that aos is so bad and so pathetic that there are only 2 choices
1. 8th Ed forever
2. Kings of War 2
What are all you guys doing? I'm gonna do both I think , providing the rules that come out are good


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:11 pm 
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The problem with the "8th forever" mentality is thus:

* You can no longer buy the 8th ed BRB and army books from GW

* There is an indication that GW will retire the current range of 8th ed models. This will likely happen either when the model is superseded by an AOE equivalent, or when it is sent to Direct Only and they no longer cast the models

I suspect that 8th will live on a while longer, but eventually the player base is going to run dry due to lack of cycling. New players will unlikely pick up an unsupported GW system whose rules and models can only be sourced through ebay, and eventually the veterans will drift away.

I love WHFB, and will continue to attend events as I always have, but I think we as players are very much looking as the start of our "Last Unicorn" moment for the system.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:30 pm 
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AoS looks to be a somewhat interesting situation.

On one hand, it looks to be a complete slap in the face, whilst on the other, it is shining with possibilities.

I think we can all agree the 'scrolls for existing armies' is a cop out to try and get the faithful converted to the new game. I am very keen to see AoS in full effect, but will not see that with existing models. Which leaves Warhammer players in the same category as Blood Bowl, Epic, Necromunda, Gorkamorka and Mordheim (sorry if I have forgotten any), and that is using a 'community written' updated version of 8th.

The good thing, is despite GW no longer supporting the game, after existing stocks are depleted, or however they decide to do it, there is a lot of other manufacturers. It's just a time will tell situation.

As a TO, after Arcane Destruction 7, it's a wait and see thing. If there is no point to an event, I won't run one. But if people want it, it will be there, even if GW don't support the game.

To answer your question (eventually), I will play both 8th ed and AoS, because they are completely different games.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:01 pm 
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With talk like this, the game is headed only one way.

I however am optimistic and excited about AoS.
I'm aware that in the first month, there will be a tiny choice of rules and models.
But just be patient. With essentially a free buy-in (download rules) and impressive models on the horizon, I suspect a big uptake and change of opinion relativity soon.

If you keep spreading negativity, you will only hear negative comments about the game.
The simple fact is we don't have all of the answers yet.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:38 am 
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I've played a couple of AoS games now and once you ignore the silly rules (dancing to gain rerolls or talking to an imaginary horse) its actually not that bad, very basic but the game plays well.
In the games I've played we used armies that would have been roughly equivalent (about 500-750pts) in the 8th ed rules, and bar summoning (which was a problem in 8th anyway) neither army ever felt like it was over powering the other. (WoC vs. VC, TK vs. OnG, Lizards vs Empire)

In all I'm looking forward to AoS, I don't expect it to be as good as 8th to begin with but over time, and with the release of the new armies I'm sure it will improve - all the negative commenters may even enjoy it ;) .


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:11 am 
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Thanks for the heads up Alex.

I am looking forward to having a couple of games, but to be honest, I'm waiting for my copy of the starter box. It might seem a little better with models and rules that were written for it

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:19 am 
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I think it will play reasonably well.

Warscrolls and no points just tells me not to play a douche at the moment.

Simmo


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:27 pm 
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As a WHFB player who never played KoW in any variety, until the release of the AoS rules, I think the whole situation created by GW is interesting.

I've had one game of KoW, which offers to me what AoS doesn't, mass regimental battle games.

I'm sure there will be plenty of people who like AoS as its skirmish game and apparently similar to 40k, however for me WHFB is no longer supported.

To be honest I was starting to feel frustrated with how GW operate and was looking for a new gaming system and KoW fills that need.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:00 pm 
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I'm with you there Wolf.

I'd found WFB an increasingly un-fun experience where it was more about power gaming, list-building and scissors-paper-rock match-ups than actual tactics. When games are won or lost in the deployment phase, you' know it's time to move on.

KoW is a far superior system - tight, intuitive rules; balanced armies; tactical play; and none of the bloated 'everything in my army has re-rolls or multiple attacks or re-rolls AND multiple attacks'.

Warhammer armies are portable, the rules are free and no more $83 army books. What's not to like?

Hell, I'm looking forward to dusting off my Undead army and their super-magnetised bases. No more casualty removal! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:48 pm 
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I havent played WHFB in probably a decade, but AoS has actually got me reading KoW as an alternative rank and file game. The rules looks pretty simple and the fact the community seems to support alternative manuf models has piqued my interest.

Going to have a dig for my undead models and may actully invest in some reaper bones models,to bring the points up.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:59 am 
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AoE isn't soooo bad - it's just that it is no longer Fantasy wargaming. That is, no more rank and file infantry and so on.

It is a skirmish game and (if you ignore the silly rules and don't power game) is fine.

For me though, I've been looking at Fantasy for a while and waiting for the rules to become a bit more... Friendly?
Having read through KoW a few times now, it is like reading something from GW 10 years ago (Alessio Cavatore effect no doubt).
Honestly I'm treating it as 9th Ed, keeping the Fantasy fluff that made me love the game and using KoW rules.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:13 pm 
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I havent played a game of AoS, but ive watched somewhere in the vicinity of 12-15 games (both on youtube and in GW stores), and as much as people look like they are enjoying themselves each game ive seen always goes the same way:

1. Units run into the middle of the table and get into combat
2. Tons of dice are rolled until one unit is dead
3. The winning unit either runs into the opponent's deployment zone and tries and wreck any shooting units living there, or else they re-direct into a nearby combat.

The more I watch this game being played the more it reminds me of how the classic "Bar Room Brawl" game used to play - a massive scrum of models in the middle with one or two cheeky buggers chucking stuff into the fight from the sidelines. Its fun for a quick lunchtime game, but tactics and strategy are out the window.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:06 pm 
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I don't get to play a whole lot of fantasy, however I have a monsterous collection of Fantasy minis and absolutely love the old world history, setting, fluff and it makes just collecting the minis worth it. I hope GW continue to produce fantasy miniatures for all armies but I doubt it and think they will be slowly phased out. This is what concerns me the most that it's going the same way as BFG, Blood bowl etc. maybe I'm just showing my age....I don't like change!

I hope people continue to play fantasy 8th. I enjoy fantasy because it's a fantasy rank and file game, I enjoy the complexity and the army sizes. As for power gaming, meh if you don't want to play power games don't play people who do. Will be sad to see the Warhammer Fantasy world disappear.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:16 am 
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First time I've logged onto the forum for a while and I find out Fantasy is dead :shock:
Kind of makes sense that they're trying a reboot but still woah!

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