It is currently Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:14 am

All times are UTC+08:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:42 am
Posts: 1640
Location: Thornlie
Well that was the most interesting lunch break in a while, have had a look at all the end times spells now…….and for the most part they are not as bad as I was expecting. There are a couple that are pretty horrific (the slaanesh spell!!!). For the most part though they are less powerful than things like 13th, dwellers, purple sun. I really like the orc one, maybe we will see some dedicated orc combat armies now rather than green gunlines?

The random max dice per wizard per spell is something I want to see on the table before judging. My knee jerk reaction is that this is horrific….someone will take a couple of wizards with rough spells, roll well, cast said spells while the opponent then fails to get the dice on their own equalisers and start lagging far behind…….however all the really good spells are 20+ to cast, so a wizard only has a 1/3 chance of being assigned enough dice to have a realistic shot at casting the spell, then the opponent can scroll or dispel it.

This feeds into the next point of dice caps and the dispel pool. So far I haven’t heard any rumours allowing more than 12 dice in the pool. If the dispel pool rises to match the power pool (say the highest two dice) then an average phase would be 12 power dice vs 8-9 power dice……will it be worth gambling on big 20+ spells when the wizards will most likely just be wasting those dice on ‘hail Mary’ casts, and throwing away the power dice advantage!

We may actually see a real increase in reliability where wizards start selecting low cost spells and spamming them until they get what they want. E.g. I take a level 2 life wizard so I am guaranteed flesh to stone, I plonk my combat unit into combat and cast until I get that buff I want…….highly reliable (auto cast) spells with a fair impact on fights don’t make warmachine a bad game! I’m not sure I like the idea of it since it makes charging into combat on the casting turn more important than now, but that’s just personal preference.

We still can’t draw much of a conclusion about anything since we don’t know some of the critical pieces of info, the above is pretty poorly educated speculation really.

I really like how the prowess rules for the elven units change depending on what list they are in, that could make for some interesting role changes……..apart from the combined list, that’s just not fair!


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:47 am
Posts: 245
Wow, that new Malekith is rediculous and I thought KFA was bad. 2+ ward vs most cannons and even magical cannons only do a single wound. HKB/multiple wounds only does a single wound so KFA and Nagash just die in one hit to him. Walk between worlds every single turn on a unit of Witch Elves or White Lions. LOL.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:42 am
Posts: 1640
Location: Thornlie
He is, untill you think about what spamming banishment at him 6-7 times a turn would do......

Without the new magic the eternity king version does look pretty crazy. The phoenix king version probably isnt too over the top since he has flaming attacks and isnt stubborn.

I really like the look of tyrion. He is probably the safest of all the new characters (can get a look out sir, has a 2+ ward vs magic, and high stats in all the right places for the instant kill spells).......and he isnt too expensive while still being able to mash pretty much anything in one go (bar eternity Malekith)

I'll be surprised if the global consensus isnt to ban the eternity king list for tournaments......dark elves do not need martial prowess for free, and high elves do not need murderous prowess!


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:47 am
Posts: 245
Quote:
dark elves do not need martial prowess for free, and high elves do not need murderous prowess!
To differ I am begging.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:47 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:20 am
Posts: 11768
Location: Perth
Reading this stuff, all I can think of is:

Image

_________________
Image Image Image Image


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:51 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:11 pm
Posts: 8364
Location: Perth
I wonder why tyrion did not get the combined profile? can you not just shoot his horse out from under him?

Also - I am very disappointed they went to all the trouble of giving him the widow maker and its completely underwhelming...

_________________
OBJECTIVE SECURED The 40k Blog

Official Malifaux Henchman for Perth, Western Australia - Interested in a Demo? PM me!


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 8:59 am
Posts: 1546
An interesting thing that I picked up on second reading was that the book prefaces some rules (eg: magic?) with "games played during the End Times..."

So does that mean that there is a "games played not during the End Times" state?

edit: @Mass - yeah the Widowmaker kinda sucks. Fellblade for lyfe, yo! ...just a shame Nagash ate it...

_________________

Kings of War - still rolling my dice and moving my mice


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:42 pm
Posts: 2741
Location: Perth
Quote:
Reading this stuff, all I can think of is:

Image
I'm quite the opposite.
Ever since I've been in the hobby, the background has stagnated and had been quite static.
Unless there was a new model released and it had to be included in the background to justify is place in the Warhammer World, the fluff didn't really change, even after Storm of Chaos and the Necromancer Crown Campaign that occurred.
Now, the background has evolved, it's taken a step forward instead of in circles, and is become interesting.
All of our favourites have had their stories expanded.
it's quite exciting.

_________________
"Let Ye be Warned"
"From Ostermark; your Doom shall be sealed"


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:26 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:11 pm
Posts: 8364
Location: Perth
Quote:
An interesting thing that I picked up on second reading was that the book prefaces some rules (eg: magic?) with "games played during the End Times..."

So does that mean that there is a "games played not during the End Times" state?

edit: @Mass - yeah the Widowmaker kinda sucks. Fellblade for lyfe, yo! ...just a shame Nagash ate it...

Don't get me wrong, auto wounds, no saves, d6 wounds is awesome but in the stories - this was THE sword of khaine. It let aenarion defeat whole armies and greater daemons with little effort. On the table it just looks underwhelming

_________________
OBJECTIVE SECURED The 40k Blog

Official Malifaux Henchman for Perth, Western Australia - Interested in a Demo? PM me!


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 10:38 pm
Posts: 1283
He's twice as good as ghal maraz rules wise.
What more could you ask?

_________________
Book of grudges:

Olly
Roleplayer09
Wolflord

Revenge shall be mine!


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:42 am
Posts: 1640
Location: Thornlie
Ive been running some numbers since this kind of thing entertains me (and I was a bit underwhelmed by the widowmaker as well) and have found the following:

In a duel:
eternity king malekith > the universe
tyrion, phoenix king malekith, eternity king malekith > karl franz, glotkin, imerick
tyrion > phoenix king malekith, karl franz, glotkin, nagash etc

In a wound race against 1+ armour:
karl franz, tyrion > any kind of malekith > glotkin, imerick
- in this fight I put tyrion against 12 skull crushers (four to the front and flanks) and he had no problem

In a wound race against monstrous infantry:
eternity malekith > everything, but its really close between phoenix malekith, karl franz, and tyrion (all inflicting about 18 - 21 wounds)


Tyrion is really impressive at walking up to anything in the game outside of malekith and glotkin and making it die instantaneously. Karl franz has a chance of surviving one round (and if so has a chance of actually killing tyrion) but its really not in his favour. Tyrion even survives against hellebron fairly well........I havent tried working out how many greater daemons these guys could fight......my gut feel is tyrion could probably go for four at once, but it would depend on gifts.

After running these numbers I am suitably impressed with tyrions ability to smash face (although I was honestly expecting the widowmaker to be "any attack that hits destroys its target with no save of any kind possible")


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 8:59 am
Posts: 1546
Just noticed the whole "no loss of concentration" and "multiple spell castings" stuff and had a realisation:

If all that is true, then Skaven just won Warhammer.

* Take 2+ Grey Seers
* Load up on Warpstone Tokens
* Cast Wither forever

:(

_________________

Kings of War - still rolling my dice and moving my mice


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:42 am
Posts: 1640
Location: Thornlie
There are some issues to how it may work though.

It says a wizard can keep casting the same spell as long as all previous attempts were successful.

So does this mean you have to actually cast, and the opponent fail to dispel, or does it mean that you just have to keep meeting the casting value?.....very different implications for the two options.

What clearly can’t be done is for a wizard to try and cast a spell, fail to meet the casting value and then try the same spell again. The wizard can try to cast a new spell since he hasn’t broken concentration, but can’t try the same spell again after failing.

Regardless of how the above plays out wither will be a very dangerous spell! I think serious mage hunting will be needed…..or death magic…..I don’t think many wizards will enjoy spirit leach and caress being spamable!

Not long till all is revealed now.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:42 pm
Posts: 2741
Location: Perth
Spammable - if you keep rolling high enough for the total number of dice allowed for each casting.

Do you see how those two things balance one another out?

_________________
"Let Ye be Warned"
"From Ostermark; your Doom shall be sealed"


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: ET: Khaine Rumours
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:42 am
Posts: 1640
Location: Thornlie
To a small extent yes.....level 4s are only going to need 2 dice to throw a lot of the "minor spells" about....things like ice shard, harmonic convergence, speed of light, phas protection, flesh to stone, flaming sword, miasma, spirit leach, caress (at short range for those two)......throw in a book of asher and even things like banishment, searing doom, level 2 fire balls, soulblight, doom and darkness, and thunderbolts become two dice casts.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 Next

All times are UTC+08:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited