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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:04 pm 
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The fact is, if legions make the game unbalanced then I'm sure Ratt and Luke will probably just comp them.
I won't.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:15 pm 
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Wolf – don’t worry, most events over here do allow Chaos Dwarfs. Not sure what Skulls did this year, but the KRAGS guys always(?) let them in, Pete allowed them, and so did I. Which events exactly don’t allow them?
Skulls has allowed Chaos Dwarfs since they came out, the only one I know that doesn't is Ultimates.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:30 pm 
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Casey – I don’t think raising a points allowance fixes anything. If anything it might make the big characters better since they become less eggs in one basket and get better support.
See, now I dont reckon your example army is much chop at 3000pts. 11 Trolls is asking for a PSun or Cracks Call, and all you've added is 3 x Beasts and 3 x Crushers. My Skaven on the other hand could take double cannon, double Wheel, a Hellpit and a MASSIVE block of Queek's Vermin with the extra 600pts (plus a few more Slave blocks to be annoying). Similarly I think Empire armies can stuff in an extra Cannon + Stank, HElves take another Frosty or a big block of White Lions/ Silver Helms, etc. Basically I think other armies benefit more from the increase in points then Chaos Legions do, solely because optimal Chaos Legions will already have maxed out (or thereabouts) on their triple Special/ double Rare at 2400pts.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:45 pm 
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@ Boothy Baby:

"Wolf – don’t worry, most events over here do allow Chaos Dwarfs. Not sure what Skulls did this year, but the KRAGS guys always(?) let them in, Pete allowed them, and so did I. Which events"

Skulls allows Chaos Dwarfs, and I'm
Glad to hear Kraggs do as well. I was mentioning Ultimates which is just nonsensical. You enters these Tournaments with an aim to achieve a place in the top 12, but wait the 'whim of a TO" and the door is closed.

"Most of what you are saying is occurring on a global scale, but very little of it is happening here…..no one is crying about 6th level spells…..Luke does what he likes with Ultimates and may or may not act on our feedback.

Who is saying summoning spells are going to ruin the game?"

This was my vague attempt to demonstrate panic comping, similar to what Ultimates has done and is still doing, basically be careful what you wish for.

@ Malignant: Just 6th level spells, Chaos Dwarfs and FW.

Well I'm glad your not imposing arbitrary restrictions on units/combinations with the Legion rules which may be viewed as overpowered. It's a step in the right direction they may be hope for you yet.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:48 pm 
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Wolf – don’t worry, most events over here do allow Chaos Dwarfs. Not sure what Skulls did this year, but the KRAGS guys always(?) let them in, Pete allowed them, and so did I. Which events exactly don’t allow them?
Skulls has allowed Chaos Dwarfs since they came out, the only one I know that doesn't is Ultimates.
Which was a decision that has precisely 0 to do with comp/balance.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:03 pm 
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Luke does what he likes with Ultimates and may or may not act on our feedback.
I listen to and consider every bit of feedback I receive as a TO, but that doesn't mean I'll act on it. The truth is that while some feedback provided is good, it can also be bad, biased, uninformed, or simply out of line with the vision I have for an event. None of the decisions made on things like the areas raised in this discussion are made by accident. Everything is done for good reason, regardless of the transparency of that reason.

I don't like to get drawn into debates on many of these topics because there's not often a lot of value in it. Many take their hobby very seriously due to the time, money and effort they sink into it, and as a result become quite set in their views on certain topics. I keep as open a mind as possible, but I also have sufficient experience in running these kinds of events to know what works and what supports the end goal.

Without being rude - at the end of the day, if you don't like being at the "whim of a TO" - then step up and start running events yourself.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:14 pm 
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Casey – I added 3 beasts, 3 curshers, and 5 trolls (two units of 11), seems a pretty good use of 600 points to me. Anyway this is wildly of topic. Would you be interested in doing a 2999 point game to test out what can be done? Maybe Saturday evening after ultimates day one is wrapped up? (since our armies will already be there).

Wolf – So if I were to go about developing my set of guidelines through relatively calm discussion, with example lists given, and with feedback from both prospective chaos legion players and their opponents to produce a fair set of guidelines for a single army and avoid mass panic ban everything comp that would be okay with you?

Basically I’m trying to suggest that we really don’t have any panic comping here, and I don’t think this would start some sort of comp avalanche where we are all forced to use Swedish 16+ lists or be banished to the hobby naught corner.

The chaos dwarf issue has been bought up at ultimates before and Luke has his reasons for keeping them out (can’t remember what they were, didn’t pay too much attention)….again though, it’s not panic comping. The one shot 15+ spells has been there since the start, and as comp goes I think it’s pretty good. I would personally prefer it to be one successful cast (rather than attempt), and for it only to apply to certain spells, but that’s just me.

Anyone want to have a go at breaking my set of restrictions*

Luke – just to be clear I wasn’t having a dig at you or anything. A better turn of phrase might have been “Luke looks at our feedback, compares it to his goals for the event, and decides whether or not to change anything”

*all restrictions are voluntary, for personal use only.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:19 pm 
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I listen to and consider every bit of feedback I receive as a TO, but that doesn't mean I'll act on it. The truth is that while some feedback provided is good, it can also be bad, biased, uninformed, or simply out of line with the vision I have for an event. None of the decisions made on things like the areas raised in this....

Without being rude - at the end of the day, if you don't like being at the "whim of a TO" - then step up and start running events yourself.
I've taken your advice, please see below link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN0RPTdEZJE

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Last edited by Wolf on Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:34 pm 
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Hahaha, banhammer.jpeg


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:29 pm 
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I loled. :lol:

The fact is - running events for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K in particular is harder currently than it ever has been. There are more divided opinions on the "right way to play" than we've ever seen in this hobby. No matter what decision I or any other TO makes - there's always going to be people that aren't satisfied by it. Today it seems one of those people is Wolf. Given that he's not actually attending the Ultimate Warhammer 2014 event, you'll have to excuse me if I don't lose any sleep over that. ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:17 pm 
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I loled. :lol:

Given that he's not actually attending the Ultimate Warhammer 2014 event, you'll have to excuse me if I don't lose any sleep over that. ;)
I'm glad you found the funny side.

Whilst I'm not attending this year, as it stands I won't be attending next year even if I finish in the top 10, due to no transparent reason.

So what say you?

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Outpost6030 I challenge you!!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:18 pm 
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It'll be your cross to bear I'm afraid.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:24 pm 
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Seems to me like Mal is wearing the Stubborn Crown and Wolf can't get him to fail a 10 rerollable.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:33 pm 
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Seems to me like Mal is wearing the Stubborn Crown and Wolf can't get him to fail a 10 rerollable.
I was thinking of another leadership test to be honest.

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Outpost6030 I challenge you!!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:13 pm 
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Don't push it. My tolerance has a limit.

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