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 Post subject: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:10 am 
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So, getting an understanding of the sets. Thinking I might try to build something fairly cheap for Standard.

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
3 Earthquake (reset)
2 Banefire (uncounterable, unpreventable game over? please.)

4 Llanowar Elves
2 Nactal Outlander (GR, pro blue)
4 River Boa (1G, islandwalk, regen)
3 Vithian Renegades (1GR, eats an artifact)
4 Bloodbraid Elves
4 Spellbreaker Behemoths (1GGR uncounterable, makes 5/5 or bigger uncounterable)
2 Apocalypse Hydras (or Feral Hydras- late game fatties)

4 Kazandu Refuge
4 Raging Ravine
4 Terramorphic Expanse
6 Forest
6 Mountain

... so many lands that come into play tapped. I'm tempted to replace the Refuges with basic land.

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Last edited by Obeisance on Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:41 am 
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If you're really concerned about the amount of lands that come into play tapped you could always throw in a couple of Amulets of Vigor

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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:52 am 
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Bloodbraid Elf into either Earthquake or Banefire is pretty depressing though.

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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:56 am 
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Bloodbraiding into EQ or Bane would suck, but they're necessary cards. I need to be able to reset the board against Hordes, or have an endgame answer to being locked down by control.

Are my creature choices solid enough?

I was also thinking I might be going too heavy on multi-colored stuff. Protection and the angel that stops a color would screw me.

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"The Dragon feeds on our wars. Every dead soldier is another weapon in the hands of our enemy. While we weaken, Cryx grows stronger."
- King Leto Raelthorne.


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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:02 am 
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If your opponent is alive to cast Iona, you are losing anyway (barring Polymorph shenanigans.) Also don't think Amulets of Vigor help too much at all. They are a terrible cascade and needs multiples to accelerate.

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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:41 am 
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I think the river boa is a bit out of place in the deck. sideboard it in against blue, but surely theres a better 2 drop. Maybe something like a plated geopede for landfall shinanigans might be better? also why not run harrow? so good on the mana ramp and can let you grab those all important mountains. not to mention adding mana to your x spells.
I know its hard on the green, but what about the leatherback baloth? 3 mana for 4/5 is great value. but i realise it takes a lot of green to get that.
And yer as jason said, the only deck, apart from polymorph, that would run iona is blue white control, and if you are seeing her come out you are probably already in deep trouble.

seems like you are worried about facing blue?

But it seems pretty potent. Give it a run and see how it goes i guess.

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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:31 am 
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Baloth looks great. But as you said- it's way hard on the green. I don't see myself ever being able to drop it turn 3, as triple green is kinda difficult in a dual color deck.

It's not that I'm scared of blue, I was looking for efficient creatures. Good casting to p/t ratio with a useful ability. I went with River Boa, as it's 2 for 2/1 with a couple of useful abilities. As for the pro blue jerks, feel free to suggest a better 2 drop.

Same thing with the Behemoth. It's 4 for a 5/5 that cant' be countered.. and it makes my Hydras uncounterable.

...

Open to suggestion, I'm not overly familar with the card base.

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"The Dragon feeds on our wars. Every dead soldier is another weapon in the hands of our enemy. While we weaken, Cryx grows stronger."
- King Leto Raelthorne.


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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:49 am 
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I will comment next to each card. Remembering these are purely my opinions.
4 Lightning Bolt - Great Card
4 Burst Lightning - Ok... but there is potential for improvement here. Dragonmaster Outcast... may be more fun.
3 Earthquake (reset) - I wouldn't run 3. 2 Will be fine I think.
2 Banefire (uncounterable, unpreventable game over? please.) Banefire is good, but better in elfball. You don't generate enough mana for this to be unpreventable game over.... If you are aggro-ing, you shouldn't need it. Pyroclasm may work better for removing little blockers allowing your big guys to run through.

4 Llanowar Elves - Replace with birds of paradise.
2 Nactal Outlander (GR, pro blue) - GR for a 2/2 with pro blue? why bother? I would try and get 4 deadly recluse (1G for a 1/2 reaching deathtoucher...) in here - good blocker, also stops those pesky fliers.
4 River Boa (1G, islandwalk, regen) - solid blocker - I rate this card not for the damage it can do, but for what it can prevent. 1 Green regen is solid.
3 Vithian Renegades (1GR, eats an artifact) - maybe... i mean it gets rid of an artifact so not too bad.
4 Bloodbraid Elves - wasted in this deck. I really think that while this card is awesome, with any X spells in your deck, potentially cause you more harm than good.
4 Spellbreaker Behemoths (1GGR uncounterable, makes 5/5 or bigger uncounterable) - Good card but are you running enough 5/5's to warrant it?
2 Apocalypse Hydras (or Feral Hydras- late game fatties) - If this is the reason for the spellbreakers, I would not bother with them.

I would be putting in beastmasters ascensions and fogs. Get lots of little cheap casts, attack, prevent all damage dealt still putting counters on beast masters. Then trigger it to make all your critters +5/+5. Much better than trying to drop fatties. Run Harrow or rampant growth to search for lands.

4 Kazandu Refuge - replace it with root bound crags. coming into play tapped in an aggro/burn deck loses you a turn. Turns you don't want to give control decks.
4 Raging Ravine - Adding it for fun / surprise could be interesting... again comes in tapped but if you get 4 rootbounds it is not so big an issue
4 Terramorphic Expanse - drop it. No need for it. Take more forests and mountains.
6 Forest - more of these
6 Mountain - more of these

Anyway... that is my take and I am hardly authoritative by any means.

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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:04 pm 
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id consider over bust lightnings if you wanna keep the burn and not go a different route as jj suggested, searing blaze. RR for 1 damage to creature and 1 to controlling player, but drop a land and it ups to 3 and 3. So will kill an early creature for you and get through for 3 points of damage to the player, making it easier for you to finish them off later with your banefire or other creatures. its like 2 lightning bolts!
I agree on the bloodbraid call and the artifact killer call. Though there are a few decent artifacts out there that would be worth killing.
maybe once again sideboard?
forgot about the river boas regen. definately solid.

_________________
Don't confuse Coincidence with Fate!

Everytime you roll 3 1's, Somewhere Cypher dies!

BRAWL Season 2 Champion!!!!
Khorne Wanderers 3-0-0. 5 kills and counting!!! 13 in total...
Green Cave Fanatics 6-0-1, 2 deaths! chainsaw kickbacks = 3


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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:08 pm 
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I admit Birds of Paradise would be optimal, but tbh I'm trying to keep the deck cheap- a) I don't have a lot of cash and b) all decks will be changing soon with the release of Eldarazi. Plus, Llanowar Elves can actually strike, even if it is for 1.

I'll look for a 2 drop to replace the Outlander.
I see everyone's point on the Bloodbraids- will replace them with a better 3 drop.

As for Searing Blaze over Burst Lightning? Hm. My thought on this was Burst is good early game, and can be kicked late game to take out larger targets. Whereas, Blaze is basically a sorcery because you need to play a land to get full effect. What's more common in tournament decks? 3 toughness or 4 toughness?

The reason for the Behemoths isn't for other creatures- they're good in their own right. They're 4 for a 5/5 that can't be countered.

Optimally, I'd like to run Rootbound Crags over Refuges- but again it's an issue of cost. If I can pick some up cheap- sure, no issue. I'm assuming they're around $10 each, like the old pain lands?

Deck rebuild:

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
3 Earthquake
2 Banefire

4 Llanowar Elves

3 Gnarlid Pack (It's 2 for a 2/2, with multikicler 2 for +1/+1. If if I get to late game, it's still viable)
3 River Boa

4 Vithian Renegades (3 mana for 3 power and killing an artifact.)
2 Centaur Courser (It's just 3 for 3/3. It's simply efficient- other suggestions?)

4 Spellbreaker Behemoths

2 Apocalypse Hydra

4 Kazandu Refuge (or Rootbound Crags if I can find some)
4 Raging Ravine
8 Mountain
8 Forest

So, lots of creature removal/direct damge.
4 1 drops.
6 2 drops.
6 3 drops.
4 4 drops.
2 huge guys.

Dropping the Expanses alleviates a lot of the "oh no it's tapped I can't rush) drama.

_________________
"The Dragon feeds on our wars. Every dead soldier is another weapon in the hands of our enemy. While we weaken, Cryx grows stronger."
- King Leto Raelthorne.


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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:26 pm 
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Looks solid. If u are worried about seering blaze, u can always throw in some harrows. God to mana ramp, find land u are missing plus is an instant so can landfall in your opponents turn. Just an option. Not sure what u can drop. I'd be inclined to run more green with a bit of red, using harrow tograb that 1 mountain if u need it, And running the boloths over the centaurs. If u went a bit more green over red u could easily pull one. Like 2 forest to each mountain. Coupled with the llanwar elves u could potentially pull one turn 2. All u need is 2 forests and an llanwar alive. That's brutal! If u found space for harrow somewhere u could almost run 5 mountains and the rootbound crags and the manlands, plenty of red sources. Then tho ur seering blaze might be an issue due to RR. There are other decent burn choices tho.
Just some food for thought. I probably have most of the non alara cards to make that deck.Apart from the manlands. They go like hot cakes

_________________
Don't confuse Coincidence with Fate!

Everytime you roll 3 1's, Somewhere Cypher dies!

BRAWL Season 2 Champion!!!!
Khorne Wanderers 3-0-0. 5 kills and counting!!! 13 in total...
Green Cave Fanatics 6-0-1, 2 deaths! chainsaw kickbacks = 3


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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:49 pm 
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There's not really any room for Harrows.

The only space I can really see is the Quakes or Banefire's and.. I feel they're pretty important. Then again, they really are "If I'm losing" type cards, making them situational. But in those situations they'll really turn the tide.

I need things capable of dealing with swarms of tokens. That's Earthquake.

Tempted to replace the Centaurs with Baloths. GGG is really hard though. If I went Baloths and more forests, I'd probably change the Blazes back to Bursts as they're easier to cast.

Also. I could probably drop 1-2 land. 24 land in a fairly low mana deck is slightly too much.

And..

ImageImage

Slightly more to cast and utilitarian vs cheaper and can get bigger?

_________________
"The Dragon feeds on our wars. Every dead soldier is another weapon in the hands of our enemy. While we weaken, Cryx grows stronger."
- King Leto Raelthorne.


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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Fair enough. Have u considered pyroclasm as a mass removal? 2 damage to all creatures. Should leave most of your beasts fine. And will clear out all those tokens. But earthquake is good for bigger stuff. I'd almost consider harrow over searing blaze. 4 lightning bolts could be enough direct damage, especially if u are dropping through with big nasties early on. If u decide on boloths, run 4 and 2 artifact killers. Or instead of the 3 mana artifact killer could switch for acidic slime. Can also destroy land or enchantment. And has deathtouch. But is 5 mana so probably not an option.
As for the big nasties. I'd probably prefer the feral, but either is good. Depends what u can get your hands on

_________________
Don't confuse Coincidence with Fate!

Everytime you roll 3 1's, Somewhere Cypher dies!

BRAWL Season 2 Champion!!!!
Khorne Wanderers 3-0-0. 5 kills and counting!!! 13 in total...
Green Cave Fanatics 6-0-1, 2 deaths! chainsaw kickbacks = 3


Last edited by wyldcarde on Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:00 pm 
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Earthquake is better tham Pyroclasm because the damage varies an deals it to players.

Hm. Maybe I can drop the Banes, as Quake's in similar role. Hmmm.

...

Let's give it a shot with the Baloth variation.

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
3 Earthquake
3 Harrow

4 Llanowar Elves

4 Gnarlid Pack
2 River Boa

4 Leatherrback Baloth
2 Vithian Renegade

4 Spellbreaker Behemoths

2 Apocalypse Hydras

4 Rootbound Crag
4 Raging Ravine
10 Forest
6 Mountain

_________________
"The Dragon feeds on our wars. Every dead soldier is another weapon in the hands of our enemy. While we weaken, Cryx grows stronger."
- King Leto Raelthorne.


Last edited by Obeisance on Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: G/R Aggro
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:00 pm 
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Do u mean leatherback baloth? Maybe proxy both versions and see which u prefer. As for harrow over banefire. I like it. I would probably run thr banefire sideboard to bring in against those counter decks.

_________________
Don't confuse Coincidence with Fate!

Everytime you roll 3 1's, Somewhere Cypher dies!

BRAWL Season 2 Champion!!!!
Khorne Wanderers 3-0-0. 5 kills and counting!!! 13 in total...
Green Cave Fanatics 6-0-1, 2 deaths! chainsaw kickbacks = 3


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