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Causes over Forces? - WestGamer
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 Post subject: Causes over Forces?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:42 am 
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Location: Plato's Cave
Question best illustrated with an example.

I have an Obstinate Baloth which reads "If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard Obstinate Baloth, put it blah blah blah"

If my opponent has for example a reckless scholar which reads "target player draws a card, then discards a card"

If I have more cards in my hand than just the baloth and he targets me with the scholar, can I choose to discard the Baloth, thus triggering it onto the battlefield?

Or do I have to have no choice and be forced to discard it? My gut says yes I can discard it and cheat it onto the battlefield but I wanted to check.

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From Russia With Love


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 Post subject: Re: Causes over Forces?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:02 pm 
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I think it is important, in this situation, to understand what everything is.

Your opponent's Reckless Scholar's activated ability is, "Tap: Target player draws a card, then discards a card." When this ability is activated, the owner of the trigger is your opponent. So, if he targets you with it, you can discard Obstinate Baloth for the desired effect since "a spell or ability controls causes you to discard" it.

Another way of putting it is that the game has very few way to check for whether you were forced to do something. I can't think of any replacement effects that would do this anyway.

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Jason Doan
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 Post subject: Re: Causes over Forces?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:49 pm 
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Location: Plato's Cave
Quote:
I think it is important, in this situation, to understand what everything is.

Your opponent's Reckless Scholar's activated ability is, "Tap: Target player draws a card, then discards a card." When this ability is activated, the owner of the trigger is your opponent. So, if he targets you with it, you can discard Obstinate Baloth for the desired effect since "a spell or ability controls causes you to discard" it.

Another way of putting it is that the game has very few way to check for whether you were forced to do something. I can't think of any replacement effects that would do this anyway.
Yeah, seems obvious in hindsight.

The "forced" effects I had in mind were when your opponent for example chooses a card from your hand to discard, or forces you to discard x cards where x is equal to or more than the number of cards in your hand. Situations where there is no choice in other words.

But like you said, the game doesn't incorporate a difference between whether it's forced or not.

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