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Random rules queries - WestGamer
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 Post subject: Random rules queries
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:59 pm 
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Just a few things that have come up recently in games that I was curious about. I can only think of a few right now but will no doubt remember more and query them.

Can iona name colourless and shut down eldrazi, or does it have to be one of the five?

Does oracle of mul duya let you play as many land as you want from the top of yor library, or are you limited to the extra one extra land granted by the card? I've seen it be played both ways.

Does the new elf that stops u sacrificing permanents from spells or abilities work against anihilator?


That's all I can think of at the moment. There are a lot more.

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 Post subject: Re: Random rules queries
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:00 pm 
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I think:

Iona - I don't think "colorless" is a color.

Oracle - No idea.

Elf - I'd say yes. I assume that was it's intent.

... my two cents. ^_^

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 Post subject: Re: Random rules queries
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:35 pm 
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The text on Iona specifies a colour, and thus must be one of the 5 and not colourless I would think

Oracle of Mul Daya allows you to cast the top card of your library if it is a land card. It's treated the same way as a card in your hand in that case, and so you're restricted as to the number of land drops allowed per turn (ie with one oracle in play, you may play 2 lands per turn, 2 oracles makes 3 lands, etc etc).
If you play an effect that allows you to cast an additional land, a la explore or walking atlas, whilst having oracle in play then that additional land can also be cast from the top of your library

As for the elf, yes, it does cancel out your opponents annihalator abilities :P

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 Post subject: Re: Random rules queries
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:50 pm 
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Minor rules correction: You don't cast land. You play land. You cast a spell.

Otherwise, paulfrank is on the money.

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 Post subject: Re: Random rules queries
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:55 pm 
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Bah! Semantics! Lol :P

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 Post subject: Re: Random rules queries
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:13 am 
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Ok a few more questions.
With sacrificing permanents in addition to casting costs, or sacrificing permanents as their ability, when does it happen, and can u respond to it?
For instance, if an opponent tectonic edges one of my lands, am I able to tectonic edge the edge? Or is the edge sacrificed straight away therefore u can't destroy it cos it is already sacrificed.
Same thing with vampire hexmage. If u hit it with a spell as a response u can sacrifice it to take counters off a permanent. But if they sacrifice the vampire to remove counters, are you able to lightning bolt it and kill it before it can be sacrificed, or is the sacrificing done as a cost and as such unstoppable.

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 Post subject: Re: Random rules queries
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:45 am 
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Quote:
Ok a few more questions.
With sacrificing permanents in addition to casting costs, or sacrificing permanents as their ability, when does it happen, and can u respond to it?
For instance, if an opponent tectonic edges one of my lands, am I able to tectonic edge the edge? Or is the edge sacrificed straight away therefore u can't destroy it cos it is already sacrificed.
Same thing with vampire hexmage. If u hit it with a spell as a response u can sacrifice it to take counters off a permanent. But if they sacrifice the vampire to remove counters, are you able to lightning bolt it and kill it before it can be sacrificed, or is the sacrificing done as a cost and as such unstoppable.
I chased this one up when I was fiddling with momentous fall and omnath interaction. These are the relevant rules I could find:
Quote:
601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can’t be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
Quote:
601.2g The player pays the total cost in any order. Partial payments are not allowed. Unpayable costs can’t be paid.
So the way I see it with the hex mage is this. You cannot kill it with a lightning bolt because it was sacrificed as part of the cost. The ability is still on the bottom of the stack but is sitting there independent of the creature (which is now dead). Only something played on top of the stack that could counter an activated ability could stop the hexmage.

That's how I see it anyway...

And with my omnath example (not relevant to your question), the other relevant rule is.
Quote:
608.2g If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. If the effect requires information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself or a target that’s become illegal, the effect uses the current information of that object if it’s in the public zone it was expected to be in; if it’s no longer in that zone, or if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect uses the object’s last known information. See rule 112.7a. If an ability states that an object does something, it’s the object as it exists—or as it most recently existed—that does it, not the ability.
So with momentous fall and omnath I get to pay the sacrifice part first, the game then records the relevant information (his P/T) and then I pay the mana cost. So I get the full effect of his P/T without reducing it with the mana cost. Again not relevant to your question just thought I'd share :P

EDIT: This is also the reason you can't use Tectonic Edge in response to someone snapping a snap land. The land is already sacrificed as part of the cost so tectonic edge cannot target it.

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 Post subject: Re: Random rules queries
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:51 am 
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105.4. If a player is asked to choose a color, he or she must choose one of the five colors. “Multicolored” is not a color. Neither is “colorless.”

101.2. When a rule or effect allows or directs something to happen, and another effect states that it can’t happen, the “can’t” effect takes precedence.

Id say you dont sac permanants due to this. Cnat help you with the other sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: Random rules queries
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:32 pm 
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Basically, sacrifice is a cost. As soon as a sacrifice is played, it's done- consider it like paying mana. You can respond to it, but you can't do anything about the sacrifice.

ie

1, T, Sacrifice Tectonic edge: Destroy target nonbasic land, etc etc.

Everything before the colon is a cost.

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