[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/phpbb/session.php on line 580: sizeof(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/phpbb/session.php on line 636: sizeof(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4511: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3257)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4511: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3257)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4511: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3257)
40k - IC and infiltrate with a unit - WestGamer
It is currently Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:44 am

All times are UTC+08:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:32 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:11 pm
Posts: 8364
Location: Perth
With the game of 40k now having at least 4 different IC with the USR infiltrate, I was wondering what the local consensus was on using one to infiltrate a non infiltrating unit - like crisis suits with shadow sun or Karandras with wraith guard. I have my own opinions and rules references and by RAW I think it's very clear but before I weigh in - what do you think?

_________________
OBJECTIVE SECURED The 40k Blog

Official Malifaux Henchman for Perth, Western Australia - Interested in a Demo? PM me!


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:41 pm
Posts: 455
Location: Secret Harbour
The rules as written allow an IC to infiltrate his unit.

P39 in the "Independent Character" box "Special Rules" section allows an ICs Special Rules to be passed on if the entry for that special rule specifically allows it. It goes on to give the Stubborn Special Rule as an example of this being allowed. The wording for Stubborn P43 states " When a unit that contains at least one model with this special rule........" Infiltrate has the same wording. P38 under "Infiltrate" states "Units that contain at least one model with this special rule......"

I thought this was clear cut as it is written without ambiguity. I was told at KRAGS that some have tried to reinterpret this on Internet forums. I only read this one and occasionally 3++. I've yet to see on these two sites evidence (other than people trying to reinterpret the whole deployment sequence) that changes the rules as written.

_________________
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

KRAGS Gaming Club
Fridays 7.30 - 11.00 pm


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:23 pm
Posts: 1517
Location: Space, Above and Beyond
Yeah I thought that was pretty clear now - dunno how that's even contented?

_________________
Dice for the Dice God!


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:28 pm
Posts: 4183
Location: Bayswater, Perf
Karandras Bomb is definitely one of the funnest sounding builds in the new Eldar 'dex. If you attach a Spiritseer too, to give the whole unit a 2+ save... 12 models at T6 with a 2+ save, stealth, scoring... whats not to love. I dont know if you worry about making them Wraithblades for the 4+ invuln, or just give them all the wraithcannons and go nuts as youll probably have a 3/4++ from cover anyway. Not to mention Karadras is one of the best duel-characters in the game with Eternal Warrior and 6 S8 AP2 I7 attacks...

_________________
Son of Russ


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:30 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:11 pm
Posts: 8364
Location: Perth
Sorry but I read it as a firm no. Under deployment of an IC - you may only have a character start with a unit by deploying it in coherency of a unit... And thus the unit must be on the table prior the character joining... By which time infiltrate does nothing.

Also regardless of which way you read it - you can't add a mother IC to the unit without infiltrate... No spirit seer either way is joining them!

_________________
OBJECTIVE SECURED The 40k Blog

Official Malifaux Henchman for Perth, Western Australia - Interested in a Demo? PM me!


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:41 pm
Posts: 455
Location: Secret Harbour
Quote:
Sorry but I read it as a firm no. Under deployment of an IC - you may only have a character start with a unit by deploying it in coherency of a unit... And thus the unit must be on the table prior the character joining... By which time infiltrate does nothing.
!
But that's not how it's written or how it's played. A simple example if we follow that interpretation would be - if the unit has to be placed on the table first and then the IC is placed in coherency, how can you ever put an IC inside a unit's dedicated transport during deployment? He would have to wait until the game starts and embark during the controlling players movement phase. It's never been played or interpreted that way. You always announce which units have ICs in them and then deploy or reserve them as appropriate.

_________________
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

KRAGS Gaming Club
Fridays 7.30 - 11.00 pm


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:09 pm
Posts: 3159
Yep thats how it works ICs pass special rules that affect units, eg D3 units gain infiltrate for Arihman (he gives it to himself and another units and what ever unit he joins infiltrates with him).

_________________
"Surround yourself with the greatest warriors at your command, or cower in the deepest and darkest hole you can find. It matters not. I shall take your head for the Great Khan and for the Emperor."
-Kor'sarro Khan, White Scars 3rd Company.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:17 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:11 pm
Posts: 8364
Location: Perth
There is an exception for transports about how it may start deployed with a unit and any IC's

The way I ready it - you either deploy the unit or hold it in reserve.

As the IC rules say he is either deployed in coherency or placed in reserve with a unit - I don't see how he can ever give a unit infiltrate.

GW had to make an FAQ for 5th ed to allow IC to join units prior to deployment but that never carried over to 6th ed.

All that said, it makes my job easier - I don't have to convince you to allow me to do silly infiltrate things...

_________________
OBJECTIVE SECURED The 40k Blog

Official Malifaux Henchman for Perth, Western Australia - Interested in a Demo? PM me!


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:23 pm
Posts: 1517
Location: Space, Above and Beyond
p39 - Independent Characters - "an Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in reserve, by informing your opponent which unit he has joined"

"...he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes..."

p38 - Infiltrate "Units that contain at least one model with this special rule......"

Seems pretty clear cut to me that he has joined the unit while in reserve. Case closed!

_________________
Dice for the Dice God!


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:28 pm
Posts: 4183
Location: Bayswater, Perf
Except Infiltrators dont go in Reserve. I can see Mike's argument, will have to look closer.

_________________
Son of Russ


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:06 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:11 pm
Posts: 8364
Location: Perth
That's it Tom... Keen to see where this goes... I have many ideas but the way I read it is no go...

_________________
OBJECTIVE SECURED The 40k Blog

Official Malifaux Henchman for Perth, Western Australia - Interested in a Demo? PM me!


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:27 pm
Posts: 8046
Location: London
Mike - didn't we have this EXACT argument regarding shrike and terminators in 5th?

Surely GW have to FAQ it given the history?

_________________
Westgamer Ultimates Judge - '07, '08, '09
Ex-Host : World's End Radio
2013 X-Wing Miniatures Game Australian National Champion


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:02 pm
Posts: 9253
Location: Wellard
Well infiltrators could deploy in reserve and then outflank on.

_________________
Don't confuse Coincidence with Fate!

Everytime you roll 3 1's, Somewhere Cypher dies!

BRAWL Season 2 Champion!!!!
Khorne Wanderers 3-0-0. 5 kills and counting!!! 13 in total...
Green Cave Fanatics 6-0-1, 2 deaths! chainsaw kickbacks = 3


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:50 am
Posts: 1350
I concur with the above. That you cannot infiltrate a model without the special rule, until he is joined to the unit/model that confers the special rule. As deployment happens before attachment to the unit happens, it would not be possible.

HOWEVER!
Eldrad has a rather unique special power that enables him to redeploy units. I'm not sure, but this may let you redeploy them forward, as this would occur AFTER the character has attached to the unit. I'm not sure, as I don't have my codex handy.

_________________
My Sons of Medusa Blog


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:02 pm
Posts: 9253
Location: Wellard
Nup redeploys into deployment zone.

_________________
Don't confuse Coincidence with Fate!

Everytime you roll 3 1's, Somewhere Cypher dies!

BRAWL Season 2 Champion!!!!
Khorne Wanderers 3-0-0. 5 kills and counting!!! 13 in total...
Green Cave Fanatics 6-0-1, 2 deaths! chainsaw kickbacks = 3


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 Next

All times are UTC+08:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited